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 Australian in France, help on Schengen rules

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cheryl
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Nombre de messages : 5
Date d'inscription : 28/01/2008

MessageSujet: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Lun 28 Jan à 15:40

Hello, I need some information about my situation. I've searched everywhere and I still don't understand. I am an Australian, travelling on an Australian passport. As an Australian I don't need to apply for a Schengen Visa, I have 90 days automatically every 180 days.
My situation is that I have been to France on several occasions in 2007, for varying lengths of time from 6 days to one month. I have not stayed more than 90 days in any 180 day period. My question is this: I am going to France at the end of May, and I wish to maximise my time there, I want to benefit from the Schengen Visa rules. I have read the following: "A foreign national who is exempted from the Schengen visa requirement may stay 90 days maximum per half-year from the date of first entry in the Schengen area." What date do I take as the 'date of the first entry in the Schengen area"?? I was in France on the following dates: 31 Dec 2006 - 10 Jan 2007; 28 Apr 2007 - 10 May 2007; 4 Aug 2007 - 19 Aug 2007; 25 Oct 2007 - 26 Nov 2007; 31 Dec 2007 - 6 Jan 2008; and I will also be there 29 Feb 2008 - 11 Mar 2008. So when I arrive in France on 31 May 2008, how far into a 180 day period am I ?? And I also understand that I can leave the Schengen area at the end of a 180 day period, and return a day later to commence another 90 days (ie. another 180 period but stay the first 90 days continually in Schengen).
Sorry if this is confusing, but I'm confused too ! I just want to know how long I can stay in France and how to calculate my 180 periods.
Thank you in advance for your help and advice.
Cheryl
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MD
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Nombre de messages : 1239
Localisation : France
Date d'inscription : 19/10/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Jeu 31 Jan à 9:26

The agreement dates July 14th 1998 between Australia and France stipulates (I could find only the text in French):

"1. Les ressortissants de l'Australie pourront se rendre dans les départements français, métropolitains [ ], sur présentation d'un passeport national diplomatique, officiel ou ordinaire, non revêtu d'un visa, en cours de validité, pour des séjours d'une durée maximale de trois mois par période de six mois.

Lorsqu'ils entreront sur le territoire européen de la République française après avoir séjourné par le territoire d'un ou de plusieurs Etats parties à la convention d'application de l'Accord de Schengen en date du 19 juin 1990, le séjour de trois mois prendra effet à compter de la date de franchissement de la frontière extérieure délimitant l'espace de libre circulation constitué par ces Etats."

"9. Les ressortissants des deux pays qui exerceront une activité rémunérée durant leur séjour ne bénéficient pas de la dispense de l'obligation de visa prévue aux points 1, 2, 3 et 5. Cette clause ne s'appliquera pas aux personnes qui se rendent dans l'un ou l'autre pays pour motif officiel ou voyage d'affaires."

Therefore, an Australian cannot stay more than 90 days in any period of 180 days. If you have just spent 90 days continuously in France, you have to leave France for 90 days before you may come back without a visa.
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cheryl
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Nombre de messages : 5
Date d'inscription : 28/01/2008

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Jeu 31 Jan à 12:14

Thank you MD, I understand all of that, as you will see in my post. What I'm asking is that what date do I BEGIN to calculate a 180 day period, as I have been in and out of France quite a few times in the past year. Do I start a 180 day count from the first time I arrived on 31 December 2006, then continue to count each 180 period from then ? As you can see from the dates I have provided, I haven't spent more than 90 days in any 180 day period.

I really need to know when my 180 day period starts, as the only information I have is that it starts at the first time you enter the Schengen zone. I will have had 6 or possibly 7 dates of entry over the past 12 months or so.

I know it's complicated and I'm dizzy just looking for information. I hope someone out there can clear this up for me.

Please let me know if what I have written isn't clear, and I'll try to re-word what I'm saying.

Thanks for your help.
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MD
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Localisation : France
Date d'inscription : 19/10/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Ven 1 Fév à 10:18

1. You cannot exceed 90 days in any "moving" 180 days period.

The 180 days period is not calculated only from the first day of entry. You should therefore calculate how long you have spent in the Schengen area during the 180 days period preceding the 31st of May to know how long you are authorized to remain in France.

2. Don't you qualify for a working holiday visa in France?
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cheryl
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Nombre de messages : 5
Date d'inscription : 28/01/2008

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Ven 1 Fév à 13:03

Thank you again MD, for your prompt reply.

1. By a 'moving' 180 period, I guess you mean that for each day that passes, the 180 day period that I need to look at changes by one day. Are you able to show me where to find the official information for this, as everywhere I have looked simply says '180 days from the first date of entry', and I would really like to know where to read this information from a Schengen official site, or even a French one. I will have stayed in the Schengen area for 25 days by the time I arrive there on 31st May.

2. No, I don't qualify for a working holiday visa in France, I am too old. Also, for an Australian to apply for any long-stay visa for France, we must apply from Australia, or another country if we have residence status. I don't want to go back to Australia just to apply for a long-stay visa, as I am currently in Moscow working (I don't have resident status in Russia).

Thanks again for your help, and maybe you can point me to an official website with some Schengen information about calculating the 90 days (ie. a 'moving' 180 period).

Regards,
Cheryl
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MD
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Localisation : France
Date d'inscription : 19/10/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Sam 2 Fév à 12:49

Actually, the text is a court decision, which is rather difficult to understand. Do you share my interpretation?


http://eur-lex.europa.eu/

European Court of Justice

REFERENCE for a preliminary ruling under Article 68 EC and Article 234 EC from the Conseil d’État (France), made by decision of 9 May 2005, received at the Court on 2 June 2005, in the proceedings Nicolae Bot v
Préfet du Val-de-Marne,

Case C-241/05:

On those grounds, the Court hereby rules:

Article 20(1) of the Convention implementing the Schengen Agreement of 14 June 1985 between the Governments of the States of the Benelux Economic Union, the Federal Republic of Germany and the French Republic on the gradual abolition of checks at their common borders, signed on 19 June 1990 at Schengen, is to be interpreted as meaning that the term ‘first entry’ in that provision refers, besides the very first entry into the territories of the Contracting States to that agreement, to the first entry into those territories taking place after the expiry of a period of six months from that very first entry and also to any other first entry taking place after the expiry of any new period of six months following an earlier date of first entry.
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cheryl
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Date d'inscription : 28/01/2008

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Sam 2 Fév à 23:51

MD, thanks for that interesting information. Yes, I think I agree with your interpretation. I think I'll use this as the basis of calculating my stay in France. I don't anticipate any problems, however it's good to be in possession on some solid information.

Thanks again, your assistance has been invaluable.

Cheryl
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MD
Diamond


Nombre de messages : 1239
Localisation : France
Date d'inscription : 19/10/2007

MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Dim 3 Fév à 14:08

You may qualify for another type of visas which would allow you to remain in France for more than 90 days.

Could you explain your exact situation?
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cheryl
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MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Dim 3 Fév à 21:31

Thanks MD. I'm not sure that there's much more to tell. I'm Australian (40 years old) with an Australian passport, and as I have stated above, I have been to France on several occasions during the past year or so. I have researched other visa options (longer stay visas etc) and they all require the visa application to be made by me from Australia, to the French Embassy in Australia. As I have no desire or intention of returning to Australia in the near future (I will be either travelling or coming back to Moscow after my time in France) I couldn't find a solution - maybe you can !

Thanks for your interest.

Cheryl
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MessageSujet: Re: Australian in France, help on Schengen rules   Aujourd'hui à 15:26

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